Wednesday, May 16, 2007

RELATIONSHIPS REGISTER

Back on April 27th I blogged about this gay couple and their little boy, Ethan. Jeff Chiang and Rodney Cruise are signing the Relationships Register of the City of Yarra and baby Ethan still looks beautiful with them.

61 comments:

Jacob said...

"Registration" is something that people do to their dogs.

I like the idea of gay rights, but it doesn't seem worth it unless gays have the exact same rights as everyone else, which means marriage.

Still - good luck to them.

JahTeh said...

Jacob, don't fall for the dog registration argument. This is a small step along the way to marriage equality for gays and lesbians. Its value is that it's open to couples regardless of gender so it will be interesting in a year's time to see the percentage of straight couples who are using it instead of getting married. Rodney Croome in Tasmania says it much better than I do.

Jacob said...

Yeah, I spose you're right.

Not terribly romantic though, is it?

Link said...

Yeah, well call me old fashioned. Not that I mind, (being old fashioned OR same sex couples having children) But two 'suits' and a baby, replete with helium filled, love-heart balloons. What a picture of incongruity! Keep your lid on JahTeh, but it sure LOOKs odd.

JahTeh said...

No it's not romantic and yes it looks odd because it's not romantic. I don't see two 'suits', I see two people in love and I'm an incurable romantic.

Miss Politics said...

What a beautiful young family. Good luck to them I say.

R.H. said...

Better it's not romantic, or it would look even funnier.

Rodney Cruise & Jeff Chiang said...

Hi All, well I can tell you it was romantic and a special day for our family. Yes it is merely a registration scheme, but a step in the right direction. We would not have chosen to celebrate our relationship and family in the public eye....except for the fact that publicity like this helps bring the issues of inequality for samesex couples and families into the mainstream light. At the end of the day it was a choice to do something publicly and make a stand. We all know our relationships are equal and that we and our families deserve equal treatment under the law. Unfortunately, we have to let the straight (and part of the gay) community know that too. Being invisible doesn't help us. Coming out, declaring our relationship, showing the world we have families too....all (hopefully) goes to help change. It is a long road and maybe one day Jeff and I can show our son Ethan the small role he played in helped in achieving equality before the law.

JahTeh said...

udja10Rh, cynic. As far as I'm concerned they pay taxes, contribute to the community and are entitled to the same as straight couples and that's leaving religion out of it.

Miss Politics, sorry about the trolls you've had lately but what can you do about small minds.

Rodney and Jeff, I'm glad you made it public and by the time Ethan has grown up I hope no-one cares if any rainbow child has two dads or two mums.

R.H. said...

It's ridiculous.

JahTeh said...

Sorry Rh, it looks like I word verified you in that comment. Any small happiness in this miserable world is not ridiculous.

Cazzie!!! said...

I love this, they are a handsome and loving family. That little man will know love at the highest levels :)

R.H. said...

He'll know jealousy from his peers, for having two dads -when they've only got one. What a pity he has no say in the matter?
Wake up. The whole thing is ludicrous. Stupid. Grotesque.

Arrogant, most of all.

Rodney Cruise & Jeff Chiang said...

R.H. Your argument (such as it is) is flawed. What child gets a say in their birth? None of course, so it is unclear what point you are trying to make. You say it is ludicrous, stupid, grotesque and arrogant. I think it is arrogant to pass such judgment when you know so little about the people you are talking about. But then again, if our family arrangement is not for you then I strongly suggest that you avoid setting it up for yourself!

Kelly & Sam Pilgrim-Byrne said...

Absolutely beautiful!

R.H. said...

The people I'm talking about are a pair of homosexual men with the bloody cheek to decide it's okay for a child to be raised by them when they know quite well it will cause him enormous trouble later. If two blokes want to have a domestic life of little kisses and cuddles, who cares, go ahead, but what selfish right do you think you have to pirate some kid into this sort of relationship, a relationship considered by an overwhelming number of people in this society as strange and bizarre? You know what's ahead for this kid, but you're arrogant, that's all. And ruthless: taking on the conventions of normal society merely to thumb your noses at it.

It's wrong, and you know it.

Keep going and you'll lose everything you've gained.

Jacob said...

R.H, for someone who seems to know what's good for everyone else, you're an awfully cranky person. Go have a cuppa and a lie down.

R.H. said...

I know what's good for kids, I've qualified, done my time.

Have a guzzle yourself. Goose.

R.H. said...

Shithead.

Jacob said...

"Goose!"

"Shithead"

I hope that you don't use that foul mouth around your children.

(Also: guzzle? What the?)

JahTeh said...

Rh, I really don't know what to say to you except that you're showing a bit of heterosexual arrogance in your condemnation. The reason I support men like Rodney and Jeff and women like Kelly and Sam is because of attitudes like yours. Same-sex families or Rainbow families, which I prefer, is a fact, there are lots of them and they're bringing up happy healthy children with an understanding that families are not all the same.

As for children not having a say in being born, too right. My cousin with the intelligence of a gnat has had 6 children to 3 different fathers and turned her back on 4 of them, just walked away. Now that's a fine representative of straight parenting.

I hope by the time Ethan grows up times and attitudes will have changed and it's up to older people like me to try to do this.

R.H. said...

Jacob the danger with insulting someone is they might return it. Don't be surprised.
Youngsters in this sort of mess are sure to get a lot of laughs when they start school, daddy and diddy will need to watch out.
Whoever is responsible for approving this stupid ridiculous idea should have their head removed.

R.H. said...

Oh hell Jahteh, you're Joan of Arc.

Jacob said...

Jacob the danger with insulting someone is they might return it. Don't be surprised.

So don't insult people then.

Youngsters in this sort of mess are sure to get a lot of laughs when they start school, daddy and diddy will need to watch out.

Come now, RH. Anybody who matters in this world don't give a rat's about who Ethan's parents are.

Besides, if you're trying to argue that having gay parents will somehow attract bullies, don't you think that the problem lies with the bullies, and not the victims?

Rodney Cruise & Jeff Chiang said...

R.H....It is likely that the bullies you talk of are likely to be the children of parents like you. It is they who are disadvantaged, having a parent who has such hostility towards gay people. It makes me wonder if there is not a deeper issue at play here with R.H.

Rodney Cruise & Jeff Chiang said...

RH you state "Whoever is responsible for approving this stupid ridiculous idea should have their head removed."

I believe it was the same people who approved of you having children!

R.H. said...

Other people will see for themselves the venom thrown at me here. Cruise you know nothing about me -aside from my opposing you raising kids, yet it gets you all hysterical.
I judge people (whoever they are) by their character, nothing else. I don't think much of yours. You know quite well that a child raised by male homosexuals will cop trouble, but you won't even acknowledge it.
And listen Cruise, no one had to approve of me raising a child; it was a normal thing in this society. And I did a good job of it too. But if you want to say otherwise, let's hear it. Meanwhile you'd best be careful -in this way of things. And I mean that seriously.

R.H. said...

I'll tell you this -and don't want to say more- if my daughter (who was a leader among kids at school) had encountered a child like yours there, I would have done everything I could to have her befriend him. And not for your sake.

JahTeh said...

There's no venom there Rh, just reasonable, justified arguments.
There are plenty of single dads raising kids, stay-at-home dads and gay dads and if they all do a good job, the world will be a better place.

JahTeh said...

Rh, Joan of Arc was burned at the stake for the heresy of wearing men's clothes not for beating the crap out of the English.

As for you saying your daughter should befriend a child like Ethan but not his parents that suspiciously like that sanctimonious saying of "love the sinner, hate the sin".

Perhaps you'd like to see students here behaving like the ones in America who were suspended for wearing t-shirts quoting Bible verses saying homosexuals would go to hell. Think how that would mess with the minds of teenagers terrified of being outed and bullied.

The attitude that somehow same-sex couples aren't worthy of being parents is a learned one so stop teaching it.

Don't think I don't know what you're doing, you haven't had a blog fight or been banned from a blog in weeks, you've got withdrawal symptoms. Why don't you go to Dreadnought's blog, he's gay and hates gay marriage and children and is chronically christian.

Rodney Cruise & Jeff Chiang said...

RH You said you judge people by their character. You judge me and Jeff. Would you care to enlighten readers as to how you could possibly know what our "character" is? You know nothing about us. You have never meet us.

How will Ethan grow up? Well, I don't know about the world you live in, but the world Ethan lives in and will grow up in is not filled with married heterosexual couples raising 2.4 children. It is filled with a broad range of families of all different types, some with one parent, some with 2, some with 3 and 4 even. Some are straight some are gay, some started out straight and become gay. That is the reality of the world. Well at least the world that most of us here seem to live in. We are grateful that people like you are in the minority.

Kelly & Sam Pilgrim-Byrne said...

"Other people will see for themselves the venom thrown at me here."

RH, the only venom I can see being thrown around here is coming from your keyboard.

R.H. said...

I get personal when I'm called a crank (what would you do?), and at the suggestion my kid was a bully. The truth is she was always enormously popular, and the most generous person I've ever known.
All you've done is attack me, while avoiding the issue. So I'll tell you again, it's a stupid idea- and contemptible as well- to use kids in this way.
But like any fundamentalist, you can't tolerate dissent -or even neutrality, you demand constant applause. The slightest criticism brings ranting hysteria. Meanwhile, other homosexuals oppose demands like yours as well, simply because such demands alienate people like myself, people who seldom give homosexuality a thought. The truth is that male homosexuals raising children is widely regarded as wrong. I didn't make it that way. It's just how it is. Consequently, any children involved will be stigmatised.
But you hide from this fact, and won't even discuss it, preferring to attack me instead. It'll do you no good.
Jahteh your arguments are silly. And believe it or not, fighting with people is the last thing I want to do. It's a waste.

Kelly & Sam Pilgrim-Byrne said...

RH, if I was to post here a list of peer reviewed research which says children of gays and lesbians are NO DIFFERENT in areas of social competence, intellect, emotion, peer acceptance to children of heterosexuals, would you read it?

Because, that's the truth. 25 years of research and our families say so.

It certainly trumps your random "thoughts" on the issue, doesn't it?

Your opinions are just that, YOUR opinions. Our thriving families make a mockery of your "opinions".

R.H. said...

Twenty-five years? This crack-brain rubbish hasn't been going that long. Or has it?
Okay, let's see the research, with full details of the authors, etc. If they're homosexual, you're a liar. Common sense tells anyone that kids raised by a pair of male homos is harmful.
Which one's 'mummy' for goodness sake.

-Robert.
(And where's grandpa?)

Rodney Cruise & Jeff Chiang said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rodney Cruise & Jeff Chiang said...

RH. if you can judge character, then so can I. You are homophobic, not very bright, have poor clear thinking skills, little common sense, and a tendancy to rant with no support for your arguments. But we do love the "Fred Nile" types. Extremists such as you do more good for GLBTI families than harm. Your views, which are so poorly expressed and justified, help move people who are ambivalent about the issue to take a view. And not surprisingly, they take the view that they support GLBTI/Rainbow Families rather than the reactionary "venom" you spout.

It should be noted that it is not uncommon for many people to view such hostility towards gay people, as a struggle against ones on latent homosexuality. History is full of such people.

You have entertained us here Robert. And I am happy to note that you have not found any support here.

Best Regards
Rodney, Jeff and Ethan Chaing-Cruise

R.H. said...

Not very bright, tendency to rant, poor thinking skills, Fred Nile type, little common sense, poor expression, reactionary, homophobic, extreme, venomous...

Wooh! But that's all wishful thinking rodney (can I call you rod?). Well I doubt that I'm homosexual, I love women too much. (Thousands could testify.) All the same, I'm willing to be corrected by research. Line up Mark Banisch and Miss Croggon together, and see who I go for.

Unfortunately, the popular prejudice in all creatures great and small, favours male and female union. That's not my fault. It's not my fault that a male and female complement one another, as I was told by an art teacher (that's what education does to you). It's true of course, so nothing will convince me that two same sex 'parents' cuddling on a couch as the 'family' watches TV or whatever is a cosy sight for their 'child'. A sense of humour would help of course (as it helps everything), but I don't think they'd be in a hurry to invite their pals around.

-Robert
(You forgot to say racist)

R.H. said...

And begging your pardon, most people are NOT 'ambivalent'. They are heterosexual!

Kelly & Sam Pilgrim-Byrne said...

"It's true of course, so nothing will convince me that two same sex 'parents' cuddling on a couch as the 'family' watches TV or whatever is a cosy sight for their 'child'."

In that case, RH - I will not waste my time posting links to peer reviewed research.

Go ahead, remain wilfully ignorant - who am I to stop you?

R.H. said...

Kelly I'll tell you this sworn truth, I've nothing bad to say about homosexuals, I'm against the parenting idea, that's all. Aside from that I wish you every happiness.

Kelly & Sam Pilgrim-Byrne said...

RH, you can't see it, but you have said something VERY bad against homosexuals.

You've said we're not fit to parent.

It doesn't get much worse than that, so please don't delude yourself or others into thinking that "you don't have a problem with homosexuals", because you do.

You just can't see it.

Rodney Cruise & Jeff Chiang said...

RH, Kelly & Sam Pilgrim-Byrne are correct. You clearly have a BIG issue with Gays and Lesbians. You are homophobic. Have a look at what you have said on this page!!! Your arguments (such as they are) are full of nasty comments, illogical statements and contradictions. But again, I thank you for being so entertaining. It is always good to see people like you make fools of yourself in writing.

Kelly, Sam, Jeff and I, together with thousands of other GLBTI parents know that we are bringing up well adjusted, accepting and loved children. If you can't or wont see that, then it is your loss.

Like it or not Robert, Rainbow Families are here to stay. Their numbers are increasing rapidly. Let us hope your daughter is not a lesbian who wants to have a family. Actually, lets hope she is a lesbian and wants a family. You may actually realise what a complete tool you are!

R.H. said...

Rodney you need psychiatric treatment. Shrill hysteria like yours is what places gay rights in contempt. You're an embarrassment to it.

R.H. said...

Kelly what you won't see is that I've said nothing about homosexuals being incompetent as parents. That's not the question. I maintain and will always do so, that it's an outrageous burden to place on a child.

Kelly & Sam Pilgrim-Byrne said...

There will be no burden placed on my child, but I can guarantee you she will be weighed down heavily with unconditional love.

What a burden, eh?

JahTeh said...

Rh, you said it all in your last statement that is was an outrageous burden to put on a child. It's only an outrageous burden to people who won't accept that men can love men and women can love women. Why is homosexual men raising children wrong and any different from single men?
As for saying 'which one is mummy' that's just snotty. Ethan will call his both of his dads just that, Dad. The same as children with a father and a step-father.

R.H. said...

Yes well homosexuality is a touchy subject alright. Their trouble is they're like that American president you all hate so much, who says, "You're either with us or against us." There's no being neutral, or critical in the slightest. There's no room for discussion at all.
Well I'll tell you what, if you honestly and fair dinkum can't see the hard times facing kids raised by lovey-dovey homosexuals then you need a dog-brain transplant.

To improve your intelligence.

R.H. said...

My final comment is to wonder how I could be homophobic when I've been here among gays on a gay-friendly blog for such a long time, and have never had a single mean thought about them.

I judge people by their character, nothing else. I could do otherwise, but I'm not that stupid.

Rodney Cruise & Jeff Chiang said...

RH You keeps stating you (a) judge people by their character and (b) that you don't say nasty things about homosexuals.

Firstly, to judge someone by their character you need to actually know them and therefore gain an understanding of their character. As you have not meet us, this means that you can't judge people by their characters. You judge them by your perception and internalised views, which is not the same as character.

Secondly, you say that you don't say anything nasty about homosexuals. Have you actually read what you wrote on here? Not only did you disparage gay parenting you disparage gay relationships with you comments about them. For example "Better it's not romantic, or it would look even funnier" or "If two blokes want to have a domestic life of little kisses and cuddles, who cares, go ahead, but what selfish right do you think you have to pirate some kid into this sort of relationship" or "daddy and diddy will need to watch out".

I doubt very much you actually know any gay people personally. I certainly doubt any would count you as friends given the views you have expressed here.

On here you have stated that our child will be "stigmatised" because he has two dads. Well where does that stigma come from? People like you. You should be ashamed for DELIBRATELY stimgatising a child.

I really do hope that you daughter is a lesbian and creates a family with her partner. I wonder if you would say the same appalling things to her? I doubt it (and certainly hope you wouldn't). If your daughter was a lesbian would you be proud and supportive of her? Would you love her the same? Would you want her to have exactly the same rights as you?uh

R.H. said...

It's clear that in your view one must applaud every demand made by gays, or else be labelled homophobic. I've experiencd that before, and it's a blindness. There's no use railing against people individually, or at large, for being averse to homosexuality, because it's not something learned; it's spontaneous. The only abiding support you'll ever get is from one another, in which case your best situation would be to have your own community, just like the American Quakers.
-And you'll do your lolly over me saying that, but there are homosexual communities of a kind already in large Western Nations.

I can judge someone's character, as most people can -from a few words at a bus stop. You get a fair idea.

Do I know any homosexuals personally, yes I do -some good, some not good. That's all.

Rodney Cruise & Jeff Chiang said...

RH Following your logic it would seem that to you would argue that you don't support, for example, black peoples demands for equality and still not be called a racist! Substitute the word "Gay" with "black" or "asian" or "jew" or "muslim" and you would be called a racist. You are indeed a homophobe. And your response? Have your "own community". What did they call that....are yes "segregation".

To paraphrase you (RH):

"It's clear that in your view one must applaud every demand made by black people, or else be labelled racist. I've experiencd that before, and it's a blindness. There's no use railing against people individually, or at large, for being averse to black people, because it's not something learned; it's spontaneous. The only abiding support you'll ever get is from one another, in which case your best situation would be to have your own community.."

You get the idea!

R.H. said...

I should be able to oppose the odd demand from anyone at all sir rodney, without being screamed at. Why do you have to get hysterical? Where will get you? I don't support homo couples being parents, and never will. It's offbeat, and you know it.
Racism is a separate matter.

Rodney, to live justly, there are times you have to give up things you really want -for other people's happiness and well being.

Don't be so smug, selfish, arrogant. Mischievous.

Cheer up; there's only three times in my life I'll have dressed like you. To get married, go to court, and get buried.

Yours
(most sincerely)
-Robert.

R.H. said...

May I go now?

Rodney Cruise & Jeff Chiang said...

RH. Please go! We will all be happy! I don't think you found any support here...so maybe you should go. How you manage to state that i am getting "hysterical" is beyond me, but then again most of what you say makes no sense.

You stated "It's offbeat, and you know it". Um....well thank you for telling me what I know. What is offbeat is your opinions here. Yes please leave. Your entertainment value has subsided.

R.H. said...

Subsided? Has it? Well it took a while. How gratifying.

Bye, Rod.

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